Interesting exchange

2

11/03/2013 by Jaki Miles-Windmill


Here is a discussion between myself and a subscriber to another WordPress site. I think it’s interesting – there may be more:

Background to post: I have stopped letting things like this pass me by. I think the very least we can do with our lives is to comment on things that we disagree with. 🙂 Superiority and arrogance about one’s opinions is very dangerous, I think. The writer of this site must have looked up ‘Crystal Skulls’ and got a link to Astroshamanics because he sent me a link to it having read my account of my meeting with Crystal Skulls in 1998 on this site. Maybe some of the things he discredits and ridicules are ‘fake’. I hope that the people involved with those take the time to ‘defend’ too. That’s their right. This one’s for me :). The article is discrediting the validity of all skulls with one highlighted feature being that they must be fake because the Aztecs have bad teeth and the skulls have perfect ones (!) – along with an account of the experiments on the surfaces and what was used to make them smooth – old news. Here we go so far:

Jaki: Re the teeth – silly and illogical attempt to discredit! How many artists and sculptors make their work ‘perfect’? Mona Lisa with bad teeth? Or are all models and subjects of art perfect specimens ? Poetic license? Most of them ARE fake. A few of them not. I have had experience with them. You haven’t. Respect.

‘B’: I don’t know when Illuminuti will be on the page to moderate, as it is Illuminuti’s site, but you have my interest. I do not believe in this stuff however some people do, and this being America, that means you are free to believe in “Hey, Diddle Diddle”. What is your take on the subject from your point of view? The skulls are from outer space? Who made them? Where did they come from? What do they signify? What are their alleged powers/qualities, from your viewpoint or belief system?
An interview. This is getting interesting.

Jaki:  ‘B’, please look at astroshamanics.wordpress.com where there’s an account of my experience with 9 of the skulls. I’m not really sure where they come from. After the ‘festival’ I describe on the wordpress site, the people who were ‘keeping’ the skulls at the ceremony talked about them being programmed in some way – from the era when the Mayans were at their strongest. There are indeed lots of fakes – but I absolutely know for sure that the 9 that I ‘met’ had a huge presence and a consciousness capable of communication because one of them passed some of it’s knowledge on to me. I’m perfectly aware of how ‘flakey’ this sounds – and I truly was very cynical before. I have spent a long time NOT ‘owning’ this experience in terms of telling people (apart from friends) because I knew the sort of reactions I would get. Incidentally, I was not under any ‘influence’ whatsoever – I have taken absolutely nothing – not even alcohol – since 1970 (when something nasty was put in a drink  ) Please contact me via my site if you want to.
THANK YOU ILLUMINUTTI FOR POSTING THIS REPLY, IF INDEED YOU DO X

‘B’: I did visit your site and wrote a commentary on par of Julius Caesar’s Commentaries, then when I went to enter it, the white page popped up “Page Expired”. So maybe the mystic aura of the crystals’ did not want me to be there or it simply wasn’t meant for me to complete my gracious remarks, though to the point, as nobody here is telling anybody what, or how to believe in anything. Discussions here tend to border upon Burden of Proof, scientifically and perhaps legally as well because many, as you know, cheat other people out of money and items of monetary value. Am I right?
From you extensive narrative, you were physically and emotionally fatigues and in my opinion a bit more “receptive” to what you believe happened, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We’re good up to this point, yes?
The Mayans were a cannibalistic culture, that sacrificed their Best people. The Mayans could not foresee their own demise as a culture but people give gods, outer space, tale after tale, stuff, which does not stand up to anything but wishful thinking. But.., as I believe in God, He has never answered ANY of my prayers during my lifetime, so, I don’t want to go around calling people Fools for their beliefs. Recently, I did purchase a scrying bowl, but I shave with a straight razor, since 1970, about the time of your mystic experience, and I make shaving soap lather in the bowl with a shaving brush. To some people it’s a scrying bowl, to me it’s for shaving lather. Who’s right, who’s wrong, if there is a right, or is a wrong?? Interviews with, interesting persons, I highly prize. From the long narrative you wrote, I believe it would require a bottle of Mescal to get through, as that was tedious reading, as were what you believe as experiences to yourself. Emotional, yes. Stands up to ANY burden of proof, no.
I do thank you for the invitation to visit your page. Interesting people add to arguments. Without an interesting viewpoint as ballast, it would be all one sided. Be warned: Here, we do, laugh.

Jaki: Why would I have been physically and mentally fatigued? I wasn’t at all. Well over the jet lag, having just spent 7 days with a group of quiet, thoughtful people, just listening to people talk in a beautiful location – I was only staying 3 miles away from the site. ‘Tedious reading’ is a little unnecessarily rude I think – but your opinion is as valid as mine – and no more so. I may well be deluded (your implication) – and so might you – but let’s not, either of us, get superior about it. I am also pretty sure (an observation – no proof:) ) that your label of my account as ‘emotional’ would not be there if I was male – sorry about that – but consider it honestly. Difficult to experience such a thing completely and totally unemotionally – and very odd if I had been so. I also believe that there are far more ‘rip offs’ and ‘cheating’ going on in the ‘normal’ world – and often for far more return than were ever part of anything offered alternatively-wise – bankers of course at the top of the list. Is that an acceptable face of cheating? I have never cheated anyone in my life. Here’s a challenge: Send me your birth details – time, place and date – a free natal and transit report from me telling you things that – no – I haven’t picked up from you face to face and – no – not generalisations that could apply to anyone  – and then tell me honestly that that’s one of the things I do that’s fake. 
I honestly don’t give a s— if you or anyone else ‘here’ laughs at me! Many people would laugh at you for believing in god – and I’m sure you deal with that. I love this accent on ‘proof’ too. It makes me laugh because it’s so subjective. Whose proof? I have done phone readings for 5 years for a research scientist at an ‘eminent’ research laboratory in Europe. He has told me just how often his findings and experiments are based on dubious criteria – and the results of ‘experiments’ fudged under pressure to complete – a common practise apparently. I expect I would find your ‘proof’ extremely dubious. My experience was precisely that, an experience as real as any of yours. Nothing is truly subjective. We believe – or don’t – based on subjective reactions. Criteria for experiments is based on subjectivity, however much you try to pretend it isn’t – and scientific ‘proof’ and theory is changing in a healthy kind of way all the time – but you’d be daft to believe anything just because it was ‘scientifically’ proved. I’m glad you use yer bowl to shave in. Funny. Much love to you xxx

‘B’: I never like to knowingly insult people I interview and extend my apologies if you were slighted.
Laughter is offered to all, after I am left on many occasions holding my head when hearing things which sound a bit abstract to conventional thinking, and I do appreciate a difference in opinions.
Pardon me if I pass on the reading. I am the sort of prankster that would give Elmer J. Fudd’s birth information as Bugs Bunny, became rather miffed the last time I offered his data for a reading. 
So sorry to hear of the jet lag, yes, it can be rather unpleasant at times.
Do keep me in mind should you have detailed information regarding the six winning numbers to the Powerball Lottery (I will gladly buy you a 12 ounce seltzer, in return of that information).
In closing, this rude cad, does indeed believe that you are a most loving soul.
Keep up the Positive energy and aura. Happy to hear of your approval of my use of the scrying bowl to make my shaving soap lather – it does really make wonderful lather! Trust that to be good Fung Shuay, or cosmic efficiency of usage. I have not heard from my onyx stone of late, which is mounted on my ring. Of last, it was calling me a Doubting Thomas, of highest degree.
Madame, I bit you, Adieu, most humbly, and respectfully. (I am such a Rennaisance Man)

Jaki: Yawn. Yes, I thought of the possibility of you giving me incorrect birth information. Wouldn’t prove much though one way or another, would it? But I can only surmise that fear of being proved wrong and having your cynicism blown sky high is your motivation for refusing my offer of a reading (I’ve thrown the challenge before several times and very much enjoy a very unloving feeling of ‘take that!’ when Mr It’s-all-a-load-of-rubbish gets that terrified and bewildered look come over his face as all his belief systems get a knock at once) . If it’s a load of bull, why wouldn’t you let some misguided lady of loving intent ‘have a go’ and then you can laugh all the way to the other chaps and put illuminutti excerpts of the rubbish she’s written all over Illuminutti for all the other Illuminutties to laugh at??? With her permission! They’d so enjoy that. It’s only your birth info after all. I can’t rob your bank with it.  Fear. There’s nothing to be scared of in discovering that there’s more to our existence than the obvious or the ‘proven’. There’s a lot to discover out there that we don’t know about yet, surely you know that – and one day, the sort of thing I do will have a ‘scientific proof’. It’s not ‘magical’ in the ‘let’s kill the witches’ sense at all. Come on – you can do it.  Of course I don’t have information about the lottery. Don’t be silly. I also don’t profess to know everything about crystal skulls or Mayans – don’t really care actually – I am simply open to possibilities beyond conventional logic. Good job some of the great scientists were also open to that in the past. Otherwise we’d have progressed little. Sometimes it seems we haven’t. Love from your very own Weirdo xxx

Jaki: Incidentally, you said that you believe in ‘God’. I’d be very interested to hear what proof you have that your god exists. And whether ‘He’ is different from the gods other people believe in – and why if that’s the case.

‘B’: No proof of God on my side but I was trying to be gracious and not call you a flaming NUTJOB. You are obviously a QUACK and SCAMMER by taking people’s money for this type of BUNKO you push and I have seen many pushing the issue as you are. Those skulls only gave you what you dreamed up. There is absolutely NOTHING that makes skulls or anything else NUTCASES believing in that crap workable or real. I wouldn’t lower myself to a KOOK, and next you will allege to see UFOs so go get some tin foil and make a hat to be ready for when the cosmic rays are beamed down to your head, or is it too late??

Jaki: Yep, Brittius. Your true colours have outed. Not FAR below the surface, were they? The civilised conversation broke down very quickly when I began to challenge you with a different kind of logic. (Obvious to anyone following this – and many of my friends are too. I didn’t mention UFO’s or cosmic rays any more than you did. Where did that one come from?)

I won’t bother to lower myself to your level and insult you back. The ‘evidence’ of who is most logical and respectful is right here. Bless your cotton socks. I got to you! Sorry about that. Much love and enjoy your life. But do try not to let your aggression eat you up.

(PS If you ever change your mind, the offer of a free astrological reading still stands) love xxx

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2 thoughts on “Interesting exchange

  1. bert keizer says:

    dear jack,

    I read your exchange.

    one thing that stuck out for me was his evaluation of your account as ‘tedious’, an aspect that is not relevant.

    exchanging arguments about the genuineness of the skulls, their power to convey knowledge, their true age or what these objects are precisely etc. is best carried out under certain rules.

    neither of you has spelled out these rules and the result is a whirligig of confused notions at the end of which you don’t know who is arguing for or against what.

    it might be the case that the matter is un-arguable, but when you say:

    – I believe these skulls are Mayan and several centuries old, then archeologists might be able to argue about that.

    but when you say:

    – I believe they are charged with significant knowledge,

    then nobody can argue for or against this.

    your questioner somehow wants to show you that you are mistaken, and you might be, but his mentioning you were very tired at the time seems to be widely beside the point, as is your assurance that you were NOT tired.

    if you agree to exchange thoughts about the skulls then it’s not relevant to enter into a discussion of your state of mind when you saw them.

    a person skilled in arbitrating this type of exchange cd help you out so that you wd end up discovering what each of you wants to say.

    bringing in things like *subjectivism – fraud – fake – real – scientific * * *leads to a completely different exchange than talking of each other’s *arrogance – tiredness – silliness – illogicality etc. ** *

    what you need is …. a philosopher!

    not because she wd know anything about these skulls but she cd help you to say what you want in a clearer fashion.

    -.-.-.-.-.-

    and now some questions:

    you say you know these skulls are genuine:

    but I absolutely know for sure that the 9 that I met had a huge presence and a consciousness capable of communication because one of them passed some of its knowledge on to me. * * *(strictly speaking this might mean that one skull is genuine, IF the passing on of knowledge is taken as a criterium of genuineness. * *now tell us what knowledge it passed on to you, and does this skull pass on this knowledge to any passer by or just to you? * *if just to you, then we’ll have to take your word for it, but then we’re stuck with the awkward question: why nobody else?)*

    *(now watch yourself in this following passage:)* * * Im perfectly aware of how flakey this sounds and I truly was very cynical before. I have spent a long time NOT owning this experience in terms of telling people (apart from friends) because I knew the sort of reactions I would get. Incidentally, I was not under any influence whatsoever I have taken absolutely nothing not even alcohol since 1970 (when something nasty was put in a drink )

    *(it dsnt matter how flakey this sounds. your flakiness or its absence has no bearing on the status of these skulls. all you are saying here is trust me cause you can trust me, which dsnt get us anywhere nearer clarity about the nature of these skulls.’ )* * * I believe this is the kind of thing a philosopher wd say. if you believe that arguing about a thing like this does not involve any kind of skill then I’d better take my leave.

    because I do believe that this does involve a skill and I do not have the impression that either of you are very good at it.

    if you think this sounds arrogant, I can only say that it’s not ME saying this, it’s just me trying to pass on some of the skills developed by philosophers since Plato.

    it’s a tradition that started 2400 years ago. and I just love it.

    the best news is that I am on the shortlist for The Socrates Cup, an annual reward for the most scintillating philosophical book of the past year.

    if I win I get 2412 quid, the number of years that passed since Socrates’ execution.

    if I don’t win, I’m still happy with the nomination.

    and winning or not,

    I love you

    xx

  2. I love you too Bert – for ever – but, much as I appreciate your time and effort to correct my mode of exchange, I reserve the right to do it in any way I want. I really don’t need or want rules and I don’t need or want to be told that there are superior ways to do it – whether they be Plato or Bert Keizer. x (and you’re right – the word ‘arrogant’ comes to mind :}}

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